Curse

Phades · Jul 13, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

The reason there are many builds with a dominant class (all elems or all rangers) is because it is easier to have necessary synergy with these builds. It takes a while to cordinate members of different classes due to differing energy mechanisms. Elementalists are front loaded, Warriors are backloaded and rangers are fairly sporatic (think about the time between when a target is called and when max damage is done). Now if Elementalists were willing to wait for a Warrior to charge up before releasing damage, you could start building the synergy that is natural in single class builds.

I believe that is the difference between slow playing it rather than trying to solo spike with a mixed group of characters. The problem is that energy based attacks happen sooner, which puts adrenalin based attacks at a disadvantage. Its why i kinda frown on disrupting chop and skull crack, because they arent able to stop that spell now, unless they have already been fighting awhile constatnly. Considering the state of armor versus armor penetration, its not that hard to simply solo vaporize a warrior before he builds enough adrenalin to really do anything. This is also assuming there is no outside healing going on, on either side. In the same stance, i would also expect long charge up skills that are also delivered only in melee range, like pbaoe spells versus ranged spells, to be radically more potent compared to other alternatives. This is similar to comparing fireball to phoenix or earthquake to aftershock. Even simple spells that are point blank tend to either be less mana for the same effect, cycle faster, do more damage, and much shorter casting time in different quantities and combinations. However, when it comes to melee, it doesnt really follow this pattern compared to other forms of attack or disruption.

I dunno, maybe it just hits a nerve when i see a single monk, ele, or ranger take on 2 or more warriors at the same time and previal by either killing the agressors without outside help or make it near impossible for the warriors to actually harm them, taking them out of the fight. When situations like this occur, those classes when paired against each other, become more like a force multiplier instead of a balanced or even match like it should be.

lanilifar · Jul 13, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulatto

I guess u never played as a warrior or sepcially a mesmer. Mesmer has no interupting spells or shut down spells where he can spam. the recharges are slow with a mesmer. the Hex wears off before the the spell is recharged, backfire is a Domination hex not at Illusion hex so it cant last longer.

and none absulotely no adrenaline skills can be spammed at all. I personally think that Skull crack should not be a adrenaline skill but thats just me.

and consdiering the air ele is so fast with is air magic its hard to interupt with 7 fast casting back fire takes longer to cast then 2 air ele spells that have not fast casting

I suggest u play all the prefessions before u say something that u know nothing about. skill can be used over again thats fine but not back to back to back to back. that spam and not strategy

You don't spam one skill, you work with 5 or 6.
Is Backfire the only mesmer skill you do not know about? (It is not an interrupt.) Power spike recharges in 15 seconds, Power Leak in 20, Diversion in 5. One can also choose to use either of the Echo spells, Mantra of Recovery, Power Drain, etc. a Me/R could use one or 2 of Serpents quickness/Quickening Zephyr/Storm Chaser, the possibilities for a mesmer to be able to quickly toss out several spells and still maintain good energy are undeniable (even if you have never been able to do it).
Besides, I am not talking about spamming skills to interrupt, I am talking about using your skills repeatedly during a match to do your job on the team.
A spirit ranger uses a minimum of five skills in order to crap out spirits. Spirits each take 5 seconds to cast, and have a minimum recharge of 12 seconds (using oath shot and quickening zephyr). Spamming spirits is relative as a warrior can "spam" a significant number of attacks (with and without skills) in those 17 seconds.
An elementalist will be repeatedly using at least 4, but more likely five skills.
A warrior will be using their 5 main skills over and over, as will a mesmer and all the classes.
What you are describing is not an elementalist or ranger only tactic. You are merely describing the only way to play the game, considering you can only bring 8 skills at a time to the table.

Demon Rebel · Jul 13, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Ya know...

Being in the game for a little bit and still being noobish it looks like its still Very undecided what can kill the spirits... (I will have to look into spirits with my primary or a secondary)...

Spam is in Every frickin game out there (just about)... Yeah sometimes its a pain and frusterating as all hell.

But ya know what -> using a repetitive set of tools in a game is something called Human nature! Gain experience by doing stuff that works over and over ->> put it to use when you get in a situation where you've used it before and it was a good turn out...

Am I off my rocker with this in a game? Seems to have some serious practical application.

I think that whomever it was that suggested using TS or ventrillo or whatever you can for voice commo during the game has an important key to success in any PvP game weather its a MMORPG or FPS... If I can't communicate with my team then we are going to be a more precise and directed weapon against the opposition.

I just want to know more about how to kill the spirits because it sounds like trying to block the caster and interrupt the ability to get the spirits is the key...

(the imbalanced game/build/teams... sounds like a personal problem or opinion)

{not to mention - if the game is gonna be gone in a year -> why aren't you finding a new game to play? instead of trying to derail other people}

Thanx for all the input... I've learned from this thread

Mulatto · Jul 13, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Mantra of Recovery is a horrible elite for a shut down mesmer. go read the post on that. here I'll help u. With 12 fast cast, that's 17 seconds on a 30 second recharge skill. u do the math

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/3...ra-of-recovery

but I give echo u could use that to spam back fire one or just use it one 3 different people. but u see the problem with with it is if I use echofor power spike then I have to interrut a air ele during the spell. and considing its not very easy to interrut an air ele because air is faster then me at 12 fast casting. the end result is null. and if I "spam" backfire your result is that u cant cast to many times not that u cant cast at all. the end result of your "5" skills that u say u use in order. even though lighten strike only takes 5 energy 1 sec casting and has a 5 sec recharge and lighten orb 2 sec casting and only has a 5 sec recharge. Gale only 5 energy 1 sec casting and 5 energy. my end result is death. and the number u given me I dont see how they even up I have a 20 sec and a 15 second. pretty instane man take me a while to just get a spell off too. hell about time I get all those spells off u and your 7 other teamates can Chain lighten me again with you 25% armor pen on allllll of those spells besides gale. how is that balanced?

and if your not talking about spamming then dont reply to me because thats what I was talking about. I'm talking about quick recharge, quick casting, low enegry cost and High damage = spamming. it seems u just read about the mesmer skills and didnt even play as a mesmer. maybe u should play one and try to interrupt an air ele. or are u to busy ripping people off of thier wins and point out that its not fair that ranger whoop u in arenas. I like I said before u created them, now deal with it.

btw and warrior without a focus item only has 20 energy and a regen of 2 on his energy. soo he can only do his 1 MELEE hit about 5 times and he only has a 16% armor pen max. air eles on the other hand well they have much more and they can do it ranged.

Malchiel · Jul 13, 2005, 05:58 AM // 05:58

There should be a better way to counter spirit spam

atm it's almost ridiculous.

Mitsu Bishi · Jul 13, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Anybody who can't interrupt spells with 1 second casting time, isn't suitable to playing a Mesmer. I've interrupted countless Orizon of Healings (1 sec. as well) and so I've done with Air spells. What's the problem? The interrupts are 0.25/0.5 or 0.75 seconds casting time, with decent fast casting that's nearly halved. This basically gives you half a second time, that's more than enough.

lanilifar · Jul 13, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi

Anybody who can't interrupt spells with 1 second casting time, isn't suitable to playing a Mesmer. I've interrupted countless Orizon of Healings (1 sec. as well) and so I've done with Air spells. What's the problem? The interrupts are 0.25/0.5 or 0.75 seconds casting time, with decent fast casting that's nearly halved. This basically gives you half a second time, that's more than enough.

Some people apparently think Backfire and its 3 second cast time is the only mesmer spell that can be used to counter casters.

Bazooka · Jul 13, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I dont know of any one single cureall for spirit spamming. However in winning teams I've been on, the counter to the spirit build has always been assigning 1 or 3 people(depending on how many spirit spammers,the best spammers require bodyblocking) to the spammer and a reliable high damage area effect ala Fire Elementalist(e/me for arcane[echo]) for the spirits.

I've yet to see a consistent way to beat a defending champion Spirit team in the HoH though.

Malchiel · Jul 13, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanilifar

Some people apparently think Backfire and its 3 second cast time is the only mesmer spell that can be used to counter casters.

it's not a spell duh

stumpy · Jul 13, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

the spirits are only level 8 at 12 wilderness ... they can easily be taken down if not constantly kept up ... the counter is time. It takes 5 seconds to cast them ... if you cant interrupt that ... not sure exactly how well you will do in the hall. there is no cureall .. and likely should never be a cureall .. is there a cureall for a anti necro skill? no ... its not hard to take em out .. it just takes time and coordination.

lanilifar · Jul 13, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

it's not a spell duh

Look backfire up.
See where it says Hex Spell. Or how about the in game description where it calls backfire, Hex Spell. Before you nitpick, make sure you don't look really stupid.

Nazzarus Stormfall · Jul 15, 2005, 05:28 AM // 05:28

As a consistant Air Elementalist (My choice, even if it sucked, which it doesn't..) I frequently run spike groups in HoH.. I can honestly say, yeah.. there are times when using chain, strike, and orb constistantly will win the day.. but It takes a good skill build backup to do it well. I'm working on an air ele group build that will get around the spirit thing, and I think I have it licked.. but still, We win alot, and we lose alot.. it's about 50/50... the biggest variants i've seen are enemy skills and enemy skill.. truth be told. I've had my group, working at it's best.. be beaten by prot monk build and spirit builds, even what seemed random pickups.. You can't have a group that is good against everything and defends against everything.. Else EVERYONE would use that and say the hell with the rest of it. That would make the game pretty stale.. There are several great build ideas out there, and there is always a counter build.. Monk was the counter to Warrior, Necro to Monk, Elemental to Necro and now Ranger to Elemental. Some of the best teams I see however aren't all the same thing.. it's all about mixing up your skills and having that great organization. Just ask the top ten guilds.. I bet maybe 2-3 use that setup.. if that.. And they won't stay top ten for long.

Keep searching for the perfect build, and you'll find yourself searching for a new game.